In today's podcast episode, I interview Goran Duskic of Webmaster.Ninja. Goran is an entrepreneur from Croatia that is doing really well with his online business.
However, his journey to success has been quite interesting. He initially started with a web development company and then raised investor funds for his startup: WhoAPI.com.
As he shares on the podcast, he has mixed feelings about raising outside money. In addition to Webmaster.ninja and WhoAPI, Goran also has a couple of niche sites that he's working on.
Overall, he's a great example that people from anywhere in the world can make a living online. Enjoy the interview!
Read the Transcript Here:
Spencer: Hey everyone, welcome back to the Niche Pursuits Podcast, I’m your host, Spencer Haws from nichepursuits.com, and today I’ve got a guest that I’m going to interview and his name is Goran Duskic, and he owns WhoAPI.com and also webmaster.ninja. We’re going to talk a little bit about both of those, but before we do, I just want to go ahead and welcome Goran on to the show. Goran, how are you doing today?
Goran: Hey Spencer, thanks for having me. I just have to say I’m psyched to be on your show. I’ve been a listener for, I think, maybe two years now, and I just can’t wait to get this started.
Spencer: Absolutely. Now, I think it’s great to have people from different experience on the podcast, to hear their story, how they got started online, and I think you can provide that perspective, a little bit different perspective than we’ve had from some other interviewees. You are located in Croatia, correct?
Goran: Yeah, that’s correct. I think that’s a great thing because I love hearing new stories, international stories, and that really pumps me up and shows me that it’s possible to make this happen wherever you are in the world, you know, that you can sign up for Amazon associates, for access, you’ll get the cheques flying in to your country, and each time you have a new interview with somewhere from Scandinavia or somewhere in Asia, it’s really a different perspective than when you’re interviewing somebody in New York or California.
Spencer: Right. You know, that’s a good point. I actually do get a lot of people asking me that question that live internationally. They’re asking me, you know, am I able to start an Amazon affiliate website or can I do Google AdSense, or can I do this whole niche site thing even though I’m located in some far off country, and the answer is yes. You know, absolutely, you can build a website that ranks in the United States for certain keywords, it doesn’t really matter where you are physically located. The internet isn’t located in one any spot. Right? So that’s what’s great, anybody anywhere in the world can do this. I want to dive into your story. You have had some success. We’re going to dive in to what that success is currently today. But like anybody, we all started from square one. So where was that square one for you, how did you get started? What was your first online venture, your first attempt to make some money online?
Goran: Yeah, I would say square one for me was basically square zero. I was working in a web design company for a few months, and the paycheck was lousy, and I was just learning the ins and outs of online marketing in general, basically. This was back in 2005, I think? Maybe 2006. Because we, a few of us that were working in this web design company, we decided to start our own company in May 2006. We basically gathered around, and they asked me, “Hey Goran, you want to start a company with us? You can do sales and SEO and all that stuff. And I was the design websites, and Edi will code them, and we’ll start our company.” And this made sense to me because I really wanted to build a portfolio for myself and not for somebody else. So that was basically the beginning for me. We was really Day one from scratch with maybe a hundred bucks in my pockets, and I also had to borrow my computer because I was low on cash the month before and I sold it to a friend of mine, and he found a job in Germany and he was going to leave the computer back home. His name is Sebastian, and I said, “Sebastian, I know you’re going to leave the computer here, I could really use it for my new web design company. So can you borrow it to me?” He said, “Yeah sure, it is yours anyway for, like, a month ago, so why the hell not?” So that was basically my start, and we built it from there. We started making websites, and in 2011 we sold that web design company because we got an idea for a global, international startup. That’s a different story, but that was basically my beginning.
Spencer: No, that sounds good. So you started a web design firm, so you built a lot of websites, done a lot on the internet for clients. And that business was enough to support you full-time, or…
Goran: Yeah, it was supporting the three of us at the time. But you know how it is, when you’re paddling through mud, and you’re in this rat race and you’re living paycheck to paycheck, you’re really looking for that big project, for that big change, for that big jump. I was reading a couple of business books, and The Social Network movie was in cinemas at that time, and it really blew my mind away. This whole combination of things, I talked with my partners, and I told them, “Why don’t we just focus on web hosting, and redesign our website.” And just as Steve Jobs said in his iPhone presentation, “Let’s make a leapfrog product.” Let’s make a web-hosting product that other Croatian companies can offer. Let’s do that. So we were redesigning our website, and our developer at that time, he was doing this Ajax, was the latest and hip at that time. This ajax magic and we wanted to build a domain checker on the homepage of the website which would show the results live.
This was common, but back in 2010, when we were designing this website. It was really, it wasn’t really common at all. So we were doing that, and he got this idea about a simple API for checking domain name of liabilities. And my initial reaction was, oh my god not another idea, not another failed project, I don’t want to build stuff for six months and then realize nobody wants to buy it, let’s just not do that. But then I got a really crazy idea to build the landing page offering these APIs, like, we had them, we showed the packages, the prices, and we sort of put a pre-order button at the bottom saying that this was about to launch, and if you want to get in line, this is what it’s going to cost, we’re going to give fifty percent off to the first clients. So if you’re interested, you know, sign up here. I did a couple of backlinks to that landing page, and I started an AdWords campaign, and little by little, some preorders started coming. And then one Saturday morning, we got two preorders for worth $500 each.
Goran: This was sort of the turning point in our heads because we said, okay, screw this hosting business, let’s do this. Because just those preorders were so much more money than what we were making with web hosting packages here in Croatia. Plus, this was a global business. Up to this point we had clients only in Croatia. And we started fundraising for that idea. Basically, at that point, we didn’t have anything coded. We built the initial proof of concept, and we decided to sell the web-hosting business, both to keep us focused on this new idea, new project, and to show the investors that we are really serious. That we are not sitting in two chairs. That we were gung-ho on this WhoAPI thing.
Spencer: So, if I can jump in and just clarify a couple of things here. You had your initial web design company from 2005 to 2011 or 2010, roughly?
Goran: Yeah, yeah.
Spencer: And sold that company. And then you started for a short period of time, you started a web hosting company for webmasters in Croatia.
Goran: Yeah, this basically a spinoff of the original, we just stopped developing websites and other… you know how clients are, they want an SEO campaign, they want you to build them some sort of widget, they want CMS for this type of hotel, we just stopped doing all that.
Spencer: And just focusing on the hosting, for a little bit?
Spencer: Okay. That makes sense. So that was short-lived though, but you were able to still sell the hosting company itself once you started WhoAPI?
Goran: Yes, we sold it to the largest hosting company here in Croatia, and then we went all in on WhoAPI.
Spencer: Okay, very good. So let’s talk about WhoAPI. You did give us a little bit of the story there how it got started, the pre-orders that really got you guys excited to continue to pursue that. And then went out and did some fundraising. And I haven’t talked a lot about fundraising on the Niche Pursuits podcasts. So that’s sort of an interesting that you can bring here. How did you go about doing that, how much money did you raise?
Goran: It was really a new thing for us. In Croatia, fundraising is really something that has a different perspective, a new perspective. So I raised a total of $250,000 over the course of a few years, but at one point, I raised from an American investor, $50,000 on an event in Zagreb. Zagreb is the capital of Croatia. So these investors flew in from Silicon Valley and they sponsored an event, and I pitched WhoAPI on this event, and I won on the event.
Goran: It was crazy, it was so much more than awesome. All the media flew around us, I had interviews everyday, it was really crazy. Because this was the first time in Croatia that a startup would get an investment on the spot, because this investor was new, he never heard about WhoAPI, but on the stage, he saw my presentation and decided to invest. The reason he invested was because he is one of the initial investors in SendGrid, which is now a billion-dollar company on the stock market. When SendGrid started, it was an SMTP API. So it wasn’t a API company, he also invested in Twilio, which is telecommunications API. So this investor understood API. When he saw at the main API, WhoisAPI, he thought, okay, this is like the next big thing.
Spencer: Yeah. That’s very interesting. Okay, so $250,000 total, $50,000 from that one investor. Yeah, just really interesting that you’re able to get some media interviews and all of that, that’s sort of a different story than I’ve ever experienced. I can appreciate that perspective there. So, give us a very short reason why a webmaster, somebody listening to Niche Pursuits podcast would want to use whoAPI?
Goran: Sure. I’m a little bit afraid to go into the PBNs because some of our clients, for example, who are building PBNs.
Spencer: That’s fine, if that’s what they’re doing, that okay.
Goran: Yeah, because they were using our API to check the expiration dates on the domain names and domain dates for registration, for domain age, and they would then look up those domain names and eventually, if possible, register them, and offer them for sale for the building of a new PBN.
Spencer: So they’d input a large list, I would have to assume, right, of domains? Some extensive list of domains and they’d monitor that until it was available based on your APIs, you know, when your APIs said, right?
Goran: Yeah, well, some have, and some did do a lot of checks for domain availabilities because they were looking for domains with different extensions from around the world. But anyway, this is just one use case that I sort of, I remember it first because you were burnt with the PBNs, and I know some of your listeners are familiar with that.
Spencer: They are, yup.
Goran: With that technique, and the dangers from it. So that’s one way, and the other is just for finding domain names. Let me see––but to be honest, the main reason why I started building Webmaster Ninja, that you’ve mentioned in the beginning, was because I wanted to create a product that’s more suited for webmasters and people such as myself, because I’m not a developer and API is a really, really technical product, and it’s really hard for a non-technical person to sell a really technical product, especially when it’s B2B. So you have large sale cycles, and it’s not really something that large corporations going to come on the website, swipe their credit card, and start using the SAS tool from their get-go. This was one of the toughest challenges for me, that’s why I started moving into the Webmaster Ninja project.
Spencer: Okay. Now that makes sense. So can you give us an idea of what sort of success you’ve been able to achieve with WhoAPI or I know Webmaster Ninja is pretty new as well, but whatever you’re willing to share there. But specifically WhoAPI, I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, that’s your largest business currently. Yeah, just how did you get to where you’re at today?
Goran: Yeah, well, with WhoAPI, it was really an uphill battle with, just because the things I just mentioned, and I’ve managed to build it up to something like $5000 per month of the revenue. It’s really hard to say that’s a failure or a success, you know? If you think about how much money we’ve raised, it sounds like a failure because it’s very hard to return the investment to the investors, but that’s too long a talk to start for this podcast, really. I mean, the whole fundraising process, and how the money was spent, because we went to Silicon Valley for four months. We burnt through a lot of cash over there. Then coming back, and then trying to explain to the team how we didn’t, why we didn’t raise a million dollars, and how they’re going to have to keep working until this stuff works, you know. That not some investor worried about the outside of our team is going to fix our problems, find our clients, develop the solution, et cetera, et cetera.
After being through all that scenario, I’m happy and proud that I’m able to reach this type of revenue, because at one point I was back in my bedroom, making maybe $500 a month with WhoAPI and still, we up to that point, we’ve churned through something like $200, which is definitely not something I would risk to anybody on their back, and going to bed. As a response to your comment on how this is a much different perspective, it’s a very high roll, high risk type of game, and I really like much more the approach where you invest maybe a thousand dollars or a few thousand dollars and then you start getting initial traction by, just by some clicks, by some content, you know, by some visitors, and then trying to convert those few hundred visitors, thousand visitors, and then grow it from there. Organically, it’s much less stress-free, and gives you the opportunity to cash in on your passion.
Spencer: So do you think you would ever raise money again, or would you just always, do you think you would always just try to do more of a bootstrapped approach.
Goran: I think I’m one of those guys that it’s hard for me to say never say never, you know? But at this point, I’m very, very far away from raising money ever again. I think it’s one of those things, it’s a lesson learned, and I wouldn’t change anything because I’ve learned so much, but it’s just not the route––I don’t know, I just wouldn’t. Let’s just leave it at that.
Spencer: Yeah, I mean it comes with, when you raise money, it comes with a lot of strings attached. As you mentioned, you got investors that you need to repay, and they’re following up with you, and those sorts of things. So it does add some additional challenges, absolutely. I’ve always done things in a bootstrapped way, and so I do like that approach.
Goran: I really admire that.
Spencer: Yeah, thank you. I think it’s great to be able to work on something and build it using your own money. Not only because you don’t have that added pressure for something to absolutely work. You know, part of my process, to be honest, I’ve tried so many different ideas, and a lot of them don’t gain any traction, and it’s okay for me to just say, well, I’ll try something else, until something does sticks, and it works. And if you’re raising money, you kind of have to make that one thing work, and sometimes that can be difficult. Sometimes that’s the part of the process of building a business, is trying lots of ideas and figuring out which one works best for you. So to kind of wrap up the WhoAPI story, it’s making around $5000 a month now, and I have to assume that’s enough to support you and the couple of employees, as well, working on the team, right?
Goran: Yeah, you’re right.
Spencer: Good, very good. And so, is a lot of your focus now on Webmaster.Ninja, or do you have other projects as well that you’re spending some time on?
Goran: Yes, that’s a great question. Initially, I started pivoting to Webmaster Ninja, and I think around, right about that time I started listening to your podcast, which really turned me on and motivated me, and inspired me, and really, everything. But I don’t just say this because I’m on your podcast, but it really did. I mean, it’s really hard when you’re driving a car, you know, for like 30 minutes, 45 minutes, and you listen to an interview from someone who, you know, made the jump from quitting his job or started travelling around the world while working and making money online, and doing the affiliate marketing and AdSense and all that stuff. And even with you, when you started out as an FBA, I was crazy just listening about it. Okay, so he’s going to start that, and then, you know, a couple of car drives later, here you were, making a few thousand dollars per month. And my head is spinning, my head is spinning, and I’m just that kind of type of person who wants to do that once you see that it’s possible.
While I was listening to your podcast, I finally decided to start trying making money with affiliate marketing, with AdSense, and everything really that’s available. And this is ridiculous for me because it’s been a while since the first time I’ve heard this opportunity. And the first time I heard it, I couldn’t set an account from Croatia, because they weren’t sending cheques to Croatia. Back then it was, okay, no good, because I can’t, you know, I think I looked at commission junction, and those types of services. So it really took me a while to hop on that bandwagon, but I’m really happy that I did. I’ve started building my own sites, and redesigning some old sites that I had, that I’ve neglected. I even bought several websites to just sort of to learn some of the processes that others have implemented, and just out of common sense.
I’m also investing in websites to save money, so instead of just putting money aside, I just buy a website with a great domain name, with great backlinks. Instead of money just laying around in a bank account, I own a website that is making me money every month. So it’s sort of like, instead of buying stocks and dividend payout, I invest in the website.
Spencer: I love it, and you know that I appreciate that as well. Just over the last few months, I’ve bought a couple of websites, larger websites. I’ve bought one in March, and one in May, that’s in the last five months-ish. I bought a couple large websites, so I like your approach as well. I do love investing in websites, both building and buying them, I think it’s a great approach. Are you willing to share how much your portfolio of websites is making you right now? Just overall.
Goran: Yeah, sure. It’s around a thousand dollars per month, and I think I started something like a year ago, and what I really love about this is that you can start with as few as a few hundred dollars, so it doesn’t have to be a big investment. And I’m willing to share a story that was really painful for me. Back in 2013, I had the same idea because I just got back from Silicon Valley, and WhoAPI startup wasn’t doing so well, and I was thinking, okay what can I do, what can I do? And I saw some website on Flippa making money, and I did due diligence to the best of my ability. I logged in to Google Analytics, the traffic seemed natural, and the AdSense screenshot was there, et cetera, and the website was priced at $2000. And I was thinking, okay, this is a great deal, blah blah blah, long story short, once I purchased the website, and once I switched the AdSense account, I think maybe a month later, I clicked to withdraw the funds, and my AdSense account got banned.
Spencer: Oh, no.
Goran: Oh, yes. I realized that probably the traffic on the website that was shown in Google Analytics was probably fake, and the clicks on the AdSense were probably fake. Because you know how it is with the Google team and the AdSense team, they’re really not that, you know, communications is not their strong suit when it comes to explaining.
Spencer: Right. They don’t really tell you what’s going on, yes.
Goran: Yeah, so that really messed me up because that was a low point in my life, plus I didn’t have a ton money to spare, and I consider myself, you know, sort of an expert in the websites, and the Google Analytics and all that. So that really bugged me, and I stayed away for, yeah, four years or something to gather the courage and to go into it again.
Spencer: Yeah, think it’s important to share sort of the failures along with the successes––and of course I know that you follow along with my stories so you know I had a Google AdSense account shut down on me. It’s really frustrating and it can be almost depressing, right? It can make you not want to get back up and try again.
I’ve had websites that have been hit in Google, I’ve had the PBN sort of hit from Google, the PBN penalty. I’ve gone through a lot of different penalties, and then shut down in different ways but I’ve always got back up. I tried again and, you know, I’m glad I did because I’ve been able to build a lot of successful things. I’ve had a couple of really successful exits, I sold my Amazon FBA business that you’ve mentioned, for, you know, a healthy mid six figure account in eight months ago, or nine months ago at this point, I guess
And of course, I’ve got other websites that are doing very well now. Along with those difficulties, I think it’s important to take our lessons and learn from that. I imagine it, you know, even though it took a couple of years for you to kind of get back in the saddle and try doing affiliate websites, it sounds like you’ve learned some lessons now, and your portfolio’s making, you know, a thousand dollars a month.
Goran: Yeah, yeah, that’s great, and the best thing about it, the same with WhoAPI and Webmaster Ninja, is because I have clients around the world, and if I want to, like, this spring, if I want to go to the south of Spain for a month, no problem. I will just take my laptop, and will go there, and work from there, and enjoy mild winters and beautiful sun and the palm trees. That’s sort of the lifestyle that I really want for myself and for my fiancé.
Plus, it’s very easy to scale, if you diversify your portfolio. You get also some security from risk, and you get to learn a lot about different niches. You can explore your passions. I know you were into army knives for a while, and got to a point it was hard listening to another army knives keyword research story. That’s just the way that goes.
Spencer: Yeah, absolutely. To give people an idea, and also, I don’t know, what is sort of the average income of somebody in Croatia? What’s sort of a, yeah, a normal income?
Goran: Yeah, I would say a thousand dollars per month is like an average good income that can support you and your small family, maybe. Something like that.
Spencer: Okay, that’s good. I think that gives people perspective. I mean, obviously, listeners here in the United States, they might think, oh he’s only making a thousand dollars a month from his portfolio of websites, for $5000 a month that’s a significant amount of money, with sort of the living wage that’s needed in Croatia.
Goran: Yeah, so rent for a two-bedroom apartment in my town is 250 Euros, so that’s around three hundred dollars per month.
Spencer: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I were to find something similar around here, it’s easily going to be, you know, twelve hundred dollars a month or something like that where I’m living. And much more in California and other places.
Goran: I was just going to say, when I was in Mountain View, a two-bedroom apartment cost us three thousand dollars a month.
Spencer: Yeah, not surprised at all.
Goran: That’s a different story, yeah.
Spencer: It is. Very good. What is next for you? What’s your, where’s your focus right now, or what’s your next big project, if you have any other big projects planned?
Goran: Yes, so currently I’m on Webmaster. Ninja and I wanted to offer a free three-month trial to all the listeners and Niche Pursuits readers.
Spencer: Okay, that would great.
Goran: Yeah, we don’t have that much paying clients at the moment for Webmaster Ninja, just a dozen, but it helps me track my own portfolio, and it connects with Google Analytics and live screenshots and website monitoring and all that stuff. I log in each morning and each evening just to see how my portfolio is doing, if something out of the ordinary has happened. These things do occur, you know, well, not to create a scary image, but that stuff happens to the websites. I’m mostly doing that, and right now I’m trying to find somebody who would be willing to go with me on a free coaching one-on-one for six months to help this one person to start their journey. Similar like my side projects but not, you know, not in that extent. I just want one person just to see if I can help somebody start living the way I’m living. It’s basically like giving back to the community.
Spencer: Awesome, man! That is really kind of you to be able to do that. For people to go to webmaster.ninja and get that three months free, where do they need to go? Is there a specific url, or how would you like them to do that?
Goran: Just sign up on the main homepage, there’s button sign up to join the fight, sign up there, and when they’re logged in inside the admin, there’s, you know, like a support button, just send them a message, or email me saying, hey, I’m from Spencer, and that should be enough. But you know, if hundred people come, I’ll be overwhelmed. I don’t expect such a huge crowd, so I think this will work.
Spencer: Okay, yeah, that sounds good, so people can go to webmaster.ninja. Go ahead and sign up and then once they’re in there, they can hit the support button, send you an email, send you a message and just let them know, hey, you’re coming from Niche Pursuits, you want that three months free, and Goren will hook you up with that.
Spencer: That sounds good. And then for the sort of coaching that you wanted to help one person along with one on one coaching, how can they get in touch with you to do that?
Goran: Also on webmaster.ninja, on the blog, I’ve started writing a series of this process of how you get from zero to $100one hundred dollars a month, and on each of those posts there is, like, a call to action where they can sign up.
Spencer: Okay, very good. That is, yeah, if you go to the homepage on Webmaster.Ninja, you can see the blog link. Or you can go to webmaster.ninja/blog and then just click on any of the posts and you can see that call to action there. Or you can sign up or get in touch with Goren. Very good, that sounds good. Do you have any additional closing thoughts, any words of motivation, or just anything else that you want me to share before we wrap up the podcast?
Goran: Sure, I have a question for you.
Goran: I was listening to all the podcasts, so I know that I have the opportunity. I was thinking hard about asking you a question because you’ve shared so much, but I wanted to get your opinion on buying a premium domain name. Have you ever done it, if so, why? And if not, why not?
Spencer: Great question. I have never bought a premium domain name, believe it or not. But, well, first, the reason that I haven’t is because I guess I always do consider myself, you know, I’m the bootstrapped guy, I always start things cheap, and so if I can buy a domain name for ten bucks versus one for, you know, several thousand dollars, I’ve always just gone cheap until I figure out if the idea is going to work or not. I do know several other people that have bought premium domain names, and I think this has been shared publicly other places that Mike Jackness, he runs several e-commerce stores including colorit.com and other sites, he’s purchased treadmill.com, and I think ice packs.com, and the reason that he and other people do that, of course, is just because of the short, memorable domain. There can be a lot of value there in terms of both branding and link-building, right, when you reach out to other people and you have that short premium domain name. A lot of people would be much more willing to reference and link to your website. It just seems like a more established type business. Yeah, that’s sort of my thoughts on premium domains.
Goran: But I would conclude that you did just fine without them.
Spencer: Yeah, so far, so good, yes. I think you can, I think you could do just fine without them, and you know, maybe the approach, and I haven’t done this, but I can see myself doing this someday. If you have a business that, you know, you start from scratch, you just hand register a domain for ten bucks. If it starts to take off, and do really well, you can always go back and say, okay now maybe I want that premium one-word domain. You can go back later after you’ve been running the business for a year, or two years, and then buy that premium domain and just switch your domain names. I could see myself potentially doing that in the future, but so far I haven’t done it.
Goran: Yeah, sounds great. If I can, to wrap things up, one last thing just to try to motivate you guys listening in. I know that it’s really hard to jump ship because I’ve, you know, first I quit my job to start the web design company, and the last thing that I did before I started buying niche websites, niche websites and building them, I did have to talk with my investors. Explaining them, look, WhoAPI is not going to become this next ten-million dollar company. It’s making a solid income for myself. We have these nice clients around the world, but it is going to be very, very hard, if not impossible, to get a return on investment for you guys. I did the best that I could for the past seven years, and I’m going to seek other adventures, basically. That’s what I told them, and it has been the hardest thing that I had to do in my life, business-speaking. So I totally understand some of the guys listening, and how hard it is to jump ship, but I’m telling you, it’s really easy, and it’s not that expensive to start dabbling. At least start dabbling into it, build a new website, or buy some small website on Flippa for few hundred dollars. Even if you get burned for the few hundred dollars, you’re not going to cry over this spilled milk, but it’s going to get your feet in the water, and I think that’s the most important thing, just starting and committing to this journey.
Spencer: I think that’s great advice, I do think that people can get started with very little money, just put in some effort, you can even start from scratch, do everything yourself and learn the ropes, and it’s very possible that you can build something significant.
Goran: Yeah, I’m telling you, I bought this small website and it was a seasonal website, and I thought that I made a wrong investment. Basically, I just pulled it off. I said, okay, so I messed up with this one. Then when spring came along, some guy bought some boat on Amazon for a thousand dollars, and I got twenty five dollars affiliate commission. I found out about that a week later, after it happened, and I was like, this website was not a mistake. It is still making money! So even those types of ridiculous stories can happen, and I really encourage everybody to start this, and I’m not afraid. Often people ask me, aren’t you afraid that somebody’s going to, you know, everybody’s starts doing that, hey, there’s so many niches, like hiking, like cooking, like fitness, like this, there’s so many things, that there’s just no way it’s going to be filled so quickly, so I’d go for it.
Spencer: Great advice. There is a lot of opportunity out there. Goran, I appreciate you coming on the niche pursuits podcast, it’s been a pleasure hearing about your story, and if people want to follow along with you, I assume the best place is to go to Webmaster.Ninja, correct?
Goran: Yeah, that’s correct. It’s been a real pleasure talking to you for the first time, and being on the Niche Pursuit podcast, real honor, and I can’t wait for this to go live.
Spencer: Very good, thanks again, Goran, for being on the podcast, and thank you everybody for listening.