Today's guest on the podcast is Emilia Gardner.
Emilia is a former Lawyer turned website builder who quit her job to learn how to make money on the internet.
She first got the bug after a brief fling with self-publishing books in her law practice. In her words, this was the beginning of the journey and set the foundations in her mind that making money online was achievable.
Since then, she has gone on to create many websites.
Emilia offers advice about the tangible and intangible benefits of website creation. She talks about the importance of accountability and staying focused on a project until successful.
We also talk about an ongoing website case study she has been highlighting through her popular YouTube channel. The case study (code-named MIGA site 1) was launched ten months ago and has already had great success.
With 60,000 page views per month, 414 published articles, and earnings just shy of $1000 per month, it was certainly interesting to hear about her thoughts, goals, and strategies for the website.
Jarad and Emilia also discuss:
- Content research and siloing
- Facebook groups & engagement
- Investing and outsourcing
- Selling websites
- Emilia's opinion on why we should all become freelance writers
- RPM (revenue per thousand visitors)
- And her plans for the case study website
Links and resources mentioned in the podcast:
Watch the interview:
Read the full transcription:
Jared: Welcome to the niche pursuits podcast. Today, we are joined by Emelia gardener. Emelia is a website builder of many years, and she is such a fun interview. We get so much out of the interview today. So she has a case study side that she's doing right now.
She's built many sites, but she's focusing on one case study side that she's going through on her YouTube channel. And she's having some great success with it. The site is about nine months old. Now she's got over 400 articles published. It's getting over 60,000 visitors per month and earning just shy of a thousand dollars per month in, in those, those first nine months.
And so we spent some time talking about the details, obviously of how she's building the site. We talked about the content research and siloing of how she does that, and she shares her thoughts on, on the direction that she started off going with the site in terms of content and where it's, uh, where it's evolved to.
Now we talk, uh, in detail about when to pivot on sites, uh, how to know when to pour more money and more time into them. Um, how to know when to double down on them and continue to pour more into them versus starting another site or turning your attention elsewhere. Uh, we spent a good amount of time talking about RPMs, uh, how much money sites earning per thousand visitors.
Uh, this is a content heavy site. It's a content focused site. So RPM, uh, digging deep in the RPM is really important. Uh, I know I learned a lot from, uh, from her about. Uh, probably the best part of the interview to me though, is all the intangible things we talked about when it comes to website building, uh, Amelia is really, really focused on so many of the intangible sides of what comes with this, this business that we're in.
Um, she talks about struggles with motivation, uh, and we really zero in on struggles with accountability and staying focused on a project for long enough to see it, um, to success. Um, we get to hear a lot about the different accountability community that she has set up, um, and the different accountability, things that she's put in her life in order to be successful.
Um, she does things like weekly Hangouts, where she sets up an organizes, these, um, and accountability check-ins so that she stays focused on the project that she has in front of her. Um, I matter of fact, she actually credits the success of this website to the fact that she has stuck with it and stayed accountable.
To what she set out to do so all about really, really great interview, not just for the tangible things about website building, but really also about the intangible aspects of website building. So enjoy, and I hope you were able to follow along and enjoy what she has to say.
welcome to the niche pursuits podcast. My name is Jared Bauman, and today we are joined by Emelia Gardner. Welcome.
Emilia: Thank you for having me. This is truly an exciting thing. A moment to an experience to be on this
Jared: podcast. I should I let you have your moment for a second and dive in
Emilia: video who are watching this can see me smiling.
Like this is there's a glow and
Jared: there's like a, there's a slight glow happening
Emilia: over there. I think as well. I do shoot right next to the window. So. Got
Jared: the windows. It's a definite glow from no, but anyways, it's really good to have you on the podcast. And I, um, I think we have a lot of fun things to talk about.
I think at the outset though, maybe we can start and just share with us who you are, uh, your journey to some degree in, in website building. And that would be, get to know you a little better.
Emilia: My goodness. Well, that's quite the open-ended question. And I will say, how long do you have? Cause my journey was not exactly direct.
It does not continue to be direct. Um, I wasn't born in niche websites and I didn't go to school to do niche websites. Like many people do. I went to school to be a professional, you know, like the, the traditional profession and, uh, spend a lot of money on a degree. And then, you know, went into that profession.
And then that profession, I, I, I stopped doing that profession at some. I was a lawyer. I was a lawyer after 10 years, as a lawyer, there came an opportunity to not be a lawyer for awhile and kids. Right. And so I, uh, just happened to be my overachieving self and was feeling sort of bored and needing something to do.
And I fell down the make money online.
Jared: Which is a rabbit hole that is, we all tend to have in common, I think. And you know, it's interesting because I think a lot of successful website builders, or at least people that get into it have like, um, like I hear lawyer a lot, you know? I mean, there's some of the bigger names, like, like John Dykstra and obviously, but then there's so many people that you meet where LA law is a really good background to bring to this, um, this type of, uh, this type of field.
Emilia: Well, here's what I would say. I think the reason that you see so many people coming from professional careers, like accountants and engineers, like Matt diggity lawyers, does that. All of us are smart. We worked really hard and we were also smart enough and clever enough and just have enough experience to see sort of the game of what's happening in business in the world and realize, Hmm, there's a trickling played on us by someone else.
And that I am no longer willing to be. The one on the other receiving end of this, I would like to find a way to make my life my own. And then also to have the courage to go and say, I'm not going to do that anymore. And I think that takes a special type of person not to, not to toot my own horn or anything, but it takes a certain kind of person to get to that level in a career.
And then a certain type of person to say, you know what I'm out. And I don't think that that is something that just anyone can do
Jared: you think that you would've made this jump now, here we are. Had you not had that opportunity to move away from, from law, with, with taking a break with, with, with a kid or with, with several kids, or do you think it was something that came about because you were able to get some space away from, from being a lawyer?
Emilia: If I had been in my office at my law. Seeing clients, there is exactly zero chance really sitting with you right now. And the only reason it got me is because one, I was at home, I was bored and not mentally stimulated at all. And as a practicing lawyer, I mean, it's like, you're constantly going from the beginning of the day to the end, with phone calls and staff and client meetings and going to court, and then coming home to take care of the family.
There was literally no time for me to get sucked in, by a Russell Brunson ClickFunnels ad about how to make money online, which
Jared: I just got one of those on YouTube today.
Emilia: They're masterful, they are masterful and that, that would have never happened. So that is the thing that was required to put me on this path.
But for something like that,
Jared: So talk about your first forays into, uh, into, into online making money online. Where did you start? What did you, what did you start with?
Emilia: I actually started when I was still practicing, uh, but not, not making the jump. My law partner actually was interested in self publishing a book with the idea that the book or books would support, um, the law practice.
And so I actually learned about KDP and earned their first sort of dollars online through that process of publishing, um, sort of legal type books that were associated with our practice. And then, but I didn't continue with it. I didn't really learn about it as an industry or, or go all in on it. In fact I've never had, but it was that's where.
Jared: Did it, did that go well? Is the book doing well or no,
Emilia: I don't recommend that anybody go find it either. I, I it's, it's actually still, there's several, um, texts and, and I say this in, in all, uh, like with the best sort of heart, and I don't want to disparage anybody in that. It's just that we didn't really know what we were doing and, uh, you know, going through it.
And, and the thing about self publishing is that eventually you have the power whenever you want to just hit. Um, and it may not always be the best time to publish it, but there we were. And so it was a great experience and I will not knock it at all. And it did make some money, but it's not one of those things where I would say, Hey everybody, you should go do this because this is a great example of, of how to get started making money online.
That was just part of my journey. And what that process did for me though, is that it started to form the foundation of belief that it was possible. And I think that everybody in their journey at some point has to come to that moment where they believe, and if they never achieved that moment, then there's no chance that they will succeed.
Because at some point it's a leap of faith that if I spend, you know, $10,000 or 5,000 hours, or I sign up for this program and then start telling people about it, that I. Money. And if you don't form that belief, then it is communicated throughout all of your efforts. You know, this isn't going to work. So it's like MLM, right?
Like people who don't believe in their product, they can't sell it because, and affiliate marketing, if you don't actually use the product, it's really hard to sell it because people know. So you have to develop that belief. And for me, getting started in KDP helped help the beginning of that foundation.
But the honest truth is it took me a long time to really feel like that foundation was solid and that. Did
Jared: believe there's some powerful lines like making your first dollar or two. I mean, it's a minuscule amount and obviously not gonna, not gonna change anybody's world really, but there's something like, oh, this all the things line up this, okay, this is interesting.
Emilia: comes back to websites, right? There is nothing more exciting. I feel like with a new website than it making its first dollar first dollar a month. Cause you know that if you can make a dollar a month, then you can make two. And if you can make two, you can make 10. And if you can make 10, you can make a hundred, you just need to put more into it.
Right? So like that $1 is a proof of concept and you can't even buy a cup of coffee now with a dollar in the United States, but still it, it really means something. And I feel like that's unique to our space that a lot of other people like lawyers would be like, you made a dollar as a lawyer. I mean, and, and, and some businesses, at least here, they still frame that first dollar that a business made and put it on the wall, you know, where the customers can see it because of.
I think it's a great accomplishment to finally make a dollar. It's really funny. You
Jared: mentioned it because I was actually going to say, like, we don't get the opportunity in what we do to frame our first dollar digital dollar. We ever see it, but you're right. It is a monumental moment. I like how you talk about proof of concept.
I've never heard it put that way, but that really is what it does in many ways. Is it. It validates that what you put in has potential and really gives you the ability to dream about what's next.
Emilia: Yeah. Well, I feel like that comes from where I started, especially in the affiliate marketing world and also the world of, you know, funnels and they say, okay, well, if you can set up your funnel, your website, your sales page, and actually get someone to convert to buy something, all right, you figure out how did that happen?
And then all you have to do is continue to do that, but better, right. Or pour gas on it. Right. Maybe it's more ads or more this or more that, but truly, if you can just start getting people through your process and spending money, then you have something that's working and all you need to do is refine it.
Jared: So when did you move over to the website side of things you started with? KTP that
Emilia: wasn't, that was probably in 2016 and I truly did not go all in on it. I pick that up though in 2018, which is when I was, I had my pause. I had my. Um, in 2018 and I thought, okay, well, I've done this before. Let's do this again.
So early summer of 2018, and I realized that it would be fairly difficult. To make maybe replacement income doing KTP. So it probably wasn't until, uh, maybe the fall or even Q4 of 2018 that I actually went in on a website with the purpose of trying to make money with affiliate marketing. I'm pretty sure that I started, uh, two or three sites that summer before making the affiliate site and those sites I probably held on to for a month and then realized that they were going nowhere and canceled the hosting on them.
And then just let the domain go back. 12 months later,
Jared: moved on from it. What, what was, um, I go over the things that allowed you to learn that, Hey, let those go. And then what was the turning point for find a site that, that did start working.
Emilia: You know, it had less to do with the site and more to do with finding a community of people and also a strategy.
So the sites that I started in the summer of 2018, that I let go were starting without a roadmap without a strategy, just okay. I've heard people can do. Uh, I'm going to do it. And then you, first thing you do then is run and buy a domain and then get hosting. And then you're like, okay, now what? And realized that I didn't have a plan.
So that site that I started later, that affiliate site, that was one of my first small successes to this day. It's still a small success that I ignore, but money still comes in. You know, I still have it. It's it's, uh, let's see, you know, three, four years later, I still have that site and I still earn a couple thousand dollars a year from that site.
And, but it was one that was started with a plan in mind. And, and it was only because I fell into a Facebook group with like-minded people and then realized, okay, this is the plan. And here's what I'm going to do. And here's how it's going to happen. And then I was surrounded by people who are doing the same thing who were super supportive and like, yeah.
And that is why I can credit a small X, small success would not have happened, but for who I surrounded myself with. And I have carried that experience with me to this day, which is why I have a YouTube channel and why I work on building a community of my own. Not because I, I, um, building a course or planning to build a course or to create something, to sell them.
It's just, I, I really see the value of having people around me because I would not have succeeded at any other point in making money online with.
Jared: You have a, you have a very engaged YouTube channel. I just watched the most recent video before this interview. And I think there were well over a hundred or 150 comments on your video, and it's very clear, very engaged.
And I want to talk about, um, kind of some of the things you're doing the video with the case study site and that sort of thing. But I mean, it, it sounds like if I were, I don't want to say reading between the lines, because I think you made it pretty clear, but if, if I were to boil down there, there's a better way to put it.
If I were to boil down kind of where you're going with that, it's, it's how valuable having a community of people that are in a similar position to you to kind of rally and lean on how valuable that is to your success. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. I said it again, just because, you know, it's so important because we all sit in our, our, our dark computer in our dark rooms with.
Uh, trying to, trying to hack away at this. And so anyways, let's let you
Emilia: know, I have a second YouTube channel, right? Nope. I didn't know that I have a second YouTube channel that is completely devoted to interviews and live streams. And so those people that comment on the videos also come and hang out with me live once a week, just so we can shoot the breeze and check in.
It's like going to the pub except Wednesdays at 10:00 AM, Los Angeles. I expect them to come in and tell me what they did and everybody can commiserate. So how do we go? It was terrible. Oh, why? Here it was. And then you get like a virtual pat on the back. I actually pat myself on the back. For for them because my kids stole my harmonica.
So I have no sound effects, no more harmonic
Jared: anymore. No, the kids stole it. Yeah, I know that girl. So it sounds like there's some accountability built in here then this not just community there's accountable. Oh yes.
Emilia: And it's completely selfish. The reason I started it is because I found that I got a lot more done that because I'm so motivated by people knowing when I've failed.
So I get more done when I go to a group of, I know it's not like a huge stream. It's not thousands of people. It's usually between 15 and 30 people. And I say, okay, here's what I'm going to do. And I'm going to have it done by next week or for the month. And then they know, and I'm more likely to choose to sit down at my computer and work versus, uh, maybe go to bed or do something other wasteful of my time, because I know that those people know, they know and I'll have to come back next Wednesday and own up to it.
And that's just enough, just enough. To keep me going.
Jared: That's great. There's very little accountability as a community in this space. And I don't mean that derogatorily. I just mean because it's so siloed and because people are so individualized that, you know, it's, it's, it's tough. And unless you are a, just some kind of freak of nature in that you have this, you can harness this ability to keep yourself accountable on and on and on it.
It becomes a real challenge. I mean, we talked, um, I think a couple of weeks ago we had Marty McCloud on the podcast and Marty was talking about just how important it is to just sit down and commit to it and just do it and do it and do it and do it and just stick with it and how the people that just stick with it find their way.
So, um, the accountability component, huge piece of sticking with it, huge piece of not letting go and not giving you. Yes. Well,
Emilia: I have, uh, built this in for myself in multiple ways. One is the live streams and two is that I've actually been a part of, or even formed, uh, several different, small. I hate the word mastermind groups, because that implies, I think that it involves money or that it's like something elevated.
It's just a handful of people usually no more than four or five, because I feel like that's too many just meeting regularly either once a month or once a week or once every two weeks. How's it going, how are you, what did you do last week? What are you going to do next week? Sometimes I help form these and then I will step out of them.
And the groups that I'm in right now, I really enjoy them. I don't have plans to leave them, but I have done this in the past where it just, you know, help people connect to each other so that they have that because I do have this other platform where I'm able to connect with people, just because I think that it is so valuable, but I think of all the people I talked to and all the people I really respect and everybody I see who's succeeding in some way, goes out of their way to be involved in something like that.
I think all of the people that I, um, that I respect that, and that are succeeding in this business, have some level of connection or communication with other people in the business in some way. So for folks who are out there who are really struggling, they're like I'm all alone. You know, you could put more money into content or you could take some time.
See, okay, let me find somebody I can connect with, because that seems to be a really important component of the successful. Is do you have a community of people that are like-minded that you can just.
Jared: Talk to, so let me play devil's advocate for a bit on that. And I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
There's a ton of Facebook groups out there and stuff. And what you're talking about is a little bit different a little bit. I don't, I wouldn't say there's any accountability to those groups, you know, what, what would you say to people who might, you know, might be in those groups? How would they get accountability though?
How would they actually start to find whether it's a group or a person or a, uh, an organization or something? How did they start to find that accountability? You know, if they're struggling with. Well, I
Emilia: respect folks that have started Facebook groups and have active Facebook groups because many of those groups are, are very informational and have great posts and great content.
But Facebook is a time suck. It is formulated to stimulate your brain in a way that keeps you on the platform so that you will keep scrolling. And I started a Facebook group maybe last year or the year before to support my like MIGA content challenge thing that I was doing. And I found that, uh, people tended to learn, right.
They would just get the posts and scroll by and there was no engagement. So I would say that if you're on Facebook, Uh, I would try to find some people who are like-minded in the group with you. Maybe they're super chatty on the, uh, in the comments or they post a lot and say, Hey, would you like to get off Facebook and engage maybe on discord?
Or maybe it just in a group chat on Facebook messenger. So one, these people know who you are, so you can't lurk. Right? And you would commit to not lurking if you're lurking you're out, because the point is to be engaged so that the people know you, and then also have a regular communication. Maybe it's not daily, maybe it's weekly or something, but I think getting off, getting out of a place that distracts you and serves you with content like games to distract you is important.
And then actually engaging with those people, which Facebook also is not really calculated to do either. Right? It's it's. So you need to do something that is outwardly assertive and engaging and did Facebook is not it, but whatever it is, it needs to have those components.
Jared: It does great. Yeah. You're right.
It's very easy to lurk on those, um, on those kinds of environments.
Emilia: Yeah. That's why I got rid of my group. I had a bunch of people in it and I was, I deleted it. Right. You think, oh, why would you, why would you get rid of a place where you have your audience gathered? And like, it encourages them to do the exact thing that we are trying to avoid.
Jared: Right. Right. Which is, yeah. Not, not, not participating in, in deeper level connections. Let's transition. Let's talk about your case study. Uh, again, we'll include, um, we'll include some, some information about your YouTube channel, where you're doing this case study and you know, you're echoing a lot of what you said in your videos.
I've watched, uh, the last few videos and you talk about how, I mean, I think, you know, the most recent video. You got through nine months of this site that you're focusing on. And it's the longest that you've been focused on one site, you talked about the accountability components. So clearly this is something you're living out and you're not just saying all this accountability stuff for the sake of it, but that, that this, you know, this is a case study site that you've been focused on and that you've been really investing in what is going on with this mega for first off, what is the MIGA case study?
You've got to, you got to bring the acronym out for all of us and then, you know, bring us up to
Emilia: speed. Yeah. And I will say that I think case study is maybe not the right descripting word for it, because I don't feel like I'm particularly testing anything. You think of a case study like, oh, this is my age, my age domain.
And I'm trying this mostly. I just started a site and I, I make a video about it monthly and you could call it a case study, but, but really, and truly is just about a website. MIGA is actually not a phrase that I coined it is making the internet great again. And this came about at the end of last year, at the end of 2020.
And in the, in these, these chats, talking with folks who are like-minded folks about websites, we had talked about starting a site together and trying to come up with a name. And that's just where it came out of. It was right around, you know, the talking about the election. Not that it was election related or anything, but it's just, uh, you know, 2020 was a dumpster.
Like let's create something new that is exciting that we can look forward to and say, okay, you know, let's make our experience great again by taking action for ourselves. And that is how it was born, but truly the MIGA I had to name it something and to call it, um, the, you know, the niche site project. I heard that, that.
So I couldn't do that. It
Jared: is a, I don't know if it's trademark yet, but it certainly has a, uh, has some history to it. I had Shauna Newman on a couple of months ago and she was talking about a project she's working on that she calls project Tartarus and I said, where'd you get that name? And she's like, I just, I just came up with some random name.
It has no meaning. So I think
Emilia: so many of these, like if you have more than one case study going on on your site, then you want the name to be obvious that people are following it. So if you just say, you know, a case study site one, and how is that really different from two and will they remember nine months from now that one and two and how they're different.
So I'd plan to give them all ridiculous. For that reason so that people know like, oh, I'm, I'm interested in the, the pineapple one. And so following that versus this is not this, is it the same website or not the same website? I don't know what it is. So it, I think it helps and you could go the other
Jared: direction and just call him Mike site one and site two insight three or so that's popular as well.
Um, so yeah, so, so, uh, you know, we're, we're here nearing the end of 2021. You started this site, the beginning of 2021 for about nine months in catch us up to speed. How is this site going for you and, um, you know, where, where are you at
Emilia: with it? Well, right now I'm having a lot of fun with it and it's actually 10 months old now, cause we're recording on November 4th.
And so I have not released the month 10 video because I've never, I have not recorded it yet. And the reason that I have not gotten around to recording it yet is I committed this week to put up my air quotes is. No look November. Um, no, look, November is about not looking at analytics, uh, at all. Um, either as far as earnings or traffic, because they are a minor.
Um, like they're, they're just so hard on people mentally when things go up and down. So for me, and the reason I'm doing this as this site, I'm going to do this, this, this up thing with my hand for the people on the podcast is just gone up steadily. Like sometimes these major jumps and I'm super excited, right?
To take it from zero to somewhere in the 60,000 page views a month mark in what? Eight, eight or nine months. Right. That's where the site is that in the mid sixties, 60,000 page views a month. And, and to have reached that point, and then finally to see the site start to stutter a little bit, which happened in October.
And hopefully I'll get my video out before this podcast. 'cause I haven't told anybody that, but to see my first signs of maybe I won't have as much growth this month, or even to see the site fall back a little and then starting to troubleshoot, you know, what's happening or why, but, you know, it's been a really fun experience.
Uh, and I think it truly showed me, demonstrated to me what is required for me to take any of my sites to the next level. And I just don't think that it had really been that clear to me up to this point that that is what everybody else was doing. Some people will start a site and work on it for two or three months and then park it and it will do fine, but that's never worked for me.
It just never has. And you can, I can look at all of my other projects and not just websites, but you know, the, the KTP stuff and my, you know, affiliate marketing this, and then, you know, all the things that I've done, there were always things that I picked up and worked on 125%. Which is more than 110%. I'm talking all in like 16 hours a day, you know, that kind of thing.
And they never went anywhere and not because I wasn't going to win, it's just because I didn't commit to it long enough. And, and really, it's not like these people out there. I mean, of course they're very smart. They're not that much smarter than me. They're just more persistent than me. They, the grit is there and they were applying it in a way that I was not.
And this is the real example. If I take anything away from this whole MIGA project, it's not about keyword research or hosting or buying the domain or niche research or anything, it is literally just. Sticking with something and tell it it's doing what I want. Yeah.
Jared: Well, I think you're being a little hard on yourself.
And the reason I say that, I'm just looking through some of the numbers you shared last time around in the, in the video, your nine months, then you were at 60, 60 or so thousand pages per month. And it had jumped dramatically. I think from the month before that you kind of referenced. The site was, I mean, it looked like just shy of a thousand dollars a month in earnings that right there on a eight or nine month old site is really great.
Emilia: because it's an ads, it's not like it's affiliate stuff. People could do that. I think with less content when you're doing affiliate stuff, but for an ad site, I think I listened to Shauna's interview and I felt pretty good. She said her site, I think her ad site was a year old. It was making a thousand dollars a month.
And then she seemed disappointed and I was like, well, I'm right there with you. Like, um, I think in, uh, October, I think the site did $946, so it was 800 and something last month. So I'm really almost $2,000 a month. And I love to be there this month, even with traffic not being as awesome as
Jared: it was, it's Q4, you know, ad rates.
If you're a predominantly ad heavy site, we know that, you know, outside of probably a handful of niche. Uh, ad rates go up and in Q4. And so, you know, I mean, you probably stand a pretty good chance of getting and you actually shared, I'm going to read it off. Your goals are, I think you said by the one year mark to be at roughly a hundred thousand page views a month, roughly $1,000 in earnings a month, roughly 500 articles.
That's what I wanted to say next is, you know, for someone who's saying that they, um, have a hard time, you know, sticking with something you're getting anywhere near 500 articles in one year is a real accomplishment. So, I mean, I think, you know, there's, there's a lot to be said for some of the things you're saying about accountability, commitment, sticking to things.
'cause, you know, you've put together a foundation that, that surely will, will, will, will grow if this is where you're at already eight, nine months in.
Emilia: Yeah, but it didn't come the first time around. And for me, because of my, um, uh, peculiarities, the way that I am, uh, I have to have multiple accountability levers, and not everybody does.
Some people can sit down at their computer and get things done. Some people can just have one friend that they talk to on Facebook messenger. And that's not, I have a live stream where I talk to people. Um, I have this spreadsheet that I go into that I share with people. I am in a mastermind in, in a discord group where I'm basically surrounding myself pretty much any moment that I am not with my children to keep me on track.
And that is what is required for me. Not everybody needs that, but for me, it turned out. That's just, what's gotta be done.
Jared: And so one doing a lot of like all the work on this site. Are you outsourcing any of it? What's your involvement? I like this
Emilia: in the beginning, I wrote everything myself. And then when it started to look like things were going in the right direction and the site was earning some money, I decided, uh, because, and I won't say I was pressured.
I was encouraged. I was supported by my colleagues to begin investing in outsourcing. And I have done this before and had some kind of like net results. And I look back at my outsourcing efforts and why things failed and realized just how much of it had to do with my personal knowledge and also persistence and commitment to figuring out.
But they supported me, I would say encouraged, um, is probably the friendly word, encouraged me to begin outsourcing. And I did. And then I decided that I would just invest the revenue, the earnings of the site back into content. And then after a month or two, where things seem to be going in the right direction, I decided I was going to put $500 of my own money.
On top of the revenue and things just had to continue to grow. So in, in the beginning I thought, okay, I'll just put a couple hundred dollars a month and see where it goes. And the last two months, I think I've put in somewhere between 1200 and $1,500 a month because I was putting in the earnings plus 500.
And we're getting to a point now where it's almost just because of my time limitations, that I can't actually do enough work to outsource the content, to spend the money that I have set aside to spend, because I have limited amount of time. Like it's not just something you do, um, that, that at least that I don't do, like it doesn't, I can't spend $1,500 in an hour and then, uh, take care of all that content.
Like I have a bunch of content that I ordered that is ready to be edited and posted, but I just can't get to it because I don't have enough time.
Jared: You talked about wanting to see that the site was, I think he said doing good, or it was, you know, kind of validating the site before you put your own money in or put their earnings back in what, you know, w why is that important?
Why do you think that's something that at least with this website, you really wanted to wait and see about.
Emilia: Oh, well, because I feel like that foundation of belief, I I'd like to say that, that, that I believe in making money online 100%. Uh, but I'm also, I think, um, I'm a realist, right? I making money online and niche websites.
Aren't, aren't exactly like a guaranteed business. I mean, the bottom could fall out of us, out for us at any moment. Right. And it's not like I've got a house sitting on the property that I can sell to make my money back. I'm just conservative and cautious by nature when it comes to money. And so there are some times you start a site and you do everything right.
And it doesn't catch. Like, it just doesn't go anywhere. I've had that experience and colleagues and friends that have had that experience. And so you hear these, I don't want to say scary stories, but they're a little scary where you have somebody who says, yeah, I worked on a site for a year and I dumped $20,000 into it and it gets less than a thousand pages a month.
And, uh, what I would like to do, or I try to do instead is to start slow and write the content myself and see that the one that Google likes the site and the domain, and is actually indexing the articles. And there's actually traffic coming in and there's actually money coming in and then slowly get moving.
And, you know, you could talk to me in a year and in a year I might be talking about a case study where I just took $10,000 and put it into a site in month one, and then watched it run. You know, I'm still growing this business too, but where I'm at right now is getting mentally sort of onboard with the idea of investing money earlier and earlier and earlier.
And I just, just have to work up to it because that foundation of belief, uh, I still need, it needs to be established for me before I take this money that I earned and then put it into it. I may never see it again.
Jared: Well, it's so good because I think so many people go through that, right? You, you, you, you, you work on a site for so many months and it can be crickets for so long that you know, the, the, the belly to do all the right things and then end up with nothing.
Especially if you're, if you're newer is, is real. So, you know, I think it's, it's Sage to do that, but now you're putting a bunch of money back into it. You're actually hitting a point where you can't keep up. That's that's a good point to hit. I suppose
Emilia: you talk to these people who have these huge teams, and that's another thing that I'm still working.
Do you I've hired people before to work on sites. And I just want to have as few complications as possible. And I, so I haven't gotten there yet. And so the next, um, encouragement that my colleagues have been providing me is about, uh, hiring people directly versus using an agency or to outsource content.
And that's, uh, that's going to be a big hurdle for me to get over because I right now perceive my time limitations and the way I use my time right now, I order the content I walk away. I don't have to talk to these people. I don't have to do a lot in the way of this, that, or whatever, but. Over time to get better quality contents and, uh, the amount of content that I need, and also to get things actually posted.
I'm probably going to have to grow a little bit and that's going to be painful for me.
Jared: You talked about how, uh, early on outsourcing was hard and you didn't want to do what you were encouraged to do at this time around. It sounds like it's going a lot better. And you, you touched on how you kind of learned a few things.
What would you learn? What, what, what would, uh, what, what, what were you doing wrong that maybe you've kind of fixed or gotten better?
Emilia: Well, I happen to think, and I always thought this, and it's a mild fault that this happened, but I've always thought and said that you shouldn't hire people to do things. If you don't know how to do them yourself, because you can't supervise them.
And so very early on in starting websites, because I had gotten involved in some courses, you know, where people are outsourcing, um, I was outsourcing content without truly understanding how to do what it was. So I can't really blame writers for what they, they were doing. No, I think the thing that is different now versus my experience in 2019 is that I just know a lot more, I've just written several hundred blog posts in, in the interim.
So if there's anything that I could say, or as far as a takeaway, especially for people who are just getting started is that there's going to be a lot of people around you outsourcing and outsourcing is a, is a great thing to do when you know how to supervise it is when you know what you actually want them to produce.
To you. Cause it's not as simple as just getting your keyword and then going there and putting the title in and then saying, you know, write me a blog posts, please. Because even people who are charging 6, 8, 9, 10 cents a word they're going to still need some guidance to give you what it is that you want.
And if you don't know what it is that you want, then you're not going to get what it is that you want. You're going to get what they decide to do in order to fill up the word requirement because they want to get paid and they want to get paid as quickly as possible. And you know, that's not a criticism.
That's just, they, if they don't see any instructions, all right, they're going to look for something to type in there, to put into the box so they can hit submit. Right? So that is one of the reasons why I think that, uh, before people start outsourcing, they should write a hundred articles of their own and get an idea of what is working for them.
And I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I think people should be. Freelancers. I think that they should go on these sites that they are outsourcing from. If they haven't written very many articles and become a freelance blogger for awhile and see what the experience is like on the other side, you know, these writers get these, uh, article requests with a very lean SOP or requests.
They're like, what do I do? Okay, well, I need to make some money. So let's, let's get it because they need volume in order to make enough money to buy something. Otherwise they're trying to make $20 to get, you know, the payout because that's the threshold. So if you could see it from that other side, uh, not only would you get exposed to valuable niches, right.
That you might never think of because they know you just can't see them, you get experience writing articles, and then also seeing what it's like to be outsourced versus outsourcing. And then you would have the experience of also having articles kicked back to you by people who were more experienced than you said, this is crap.
And you're like, Well, I might've just written that for myself and put it on my own website yet. This super experienced guy says what I'm doing is not good enough and, and shows me how to fix it. I, I can learn so much.
Jared: It's very, that is very interesting. That is a, yeah, I've never freelanced written, to be honest with you.
I think you have a leg up on all of this, though. As a lawyer, you guys are very excellent writers, typically,
Emilia: you know, when it comes to using, um, words that nobody else does and the way that they do, and then linking up four or five words at a time and making our own word out of them, like wherefore. Has anybody used wherefore upon.
Jared: So you guys all agree that you do that, right? Like, can we all, we can all be honest about that because yeah. I feel like I'm reading some 17th century English.
Emilia: Well, it's it's job security that's does. If people can, uh, outside of our profession don't understand what it is we're saying, then they can't do it.
So it's purposeful. We it's like trying to keep the masses at bay. We'll just make it another language and then make you pay a hundred thousand dollars to learn it. And most people
Jared: can't afford it. Well, let's, let's hit her to the next topic here.
Emilia: Uh, I told you, I warned you before we started this, that you're going to have a hard time getting through all your questions.
Oh, I'm doing fine.
Jared: I'm doing just fine. I think, uh, I think we're rolling through this quite nicely. Actually. I think, uh, I have been surprised by some of the directions we're going. I kind of accountability in all caps here, written in my notes. I'll tell you that much. Um, here 500 articles in on this site.
That's your goals, but
Emilia: you're still, I am 414 articles and I'm in, I'm in and I'm in no look November, which means that I am, instead of looking at analytics, I am going to finish this month. I'm going to get 500 this month with munch month, which means I will do whatever it takes to get to 500 articles by the end of November.
So I've got 26 days to do 80.
Jared: Well, my point remains 400, 500. You are many, many hundreds of articles in. And I think that, um, it's worth touching on how you organize your topics and your articles. You know, we don't need to get necessarily into keywording, but just in general, how do you think through and plan out that much content just from a roadmap standpoint and, and organize that so that you're putting out content.
Relates to each other on your art, on your websites. Um, um, one year in that's a lot of content to have, and I'm curious how you organize all that.
Emilia: You see this gigantic smile.
Jared: I did the
Emilia: globe that implies that there was a plan there, there was a plan in the beginning. And when I launched this site, I think the plan was to get to 200 articles and then stop.
What I did was I picked out three sort of topic areas and I wanted, uh, all of the articles to fit into one of those three topic areas. And I also made a plan that I would only write content that could be linked to something. So that interlinking would be easy. And so I went down the road of looking for specific clusters that the form of the article would be very similar to others.
So it was easily repeatable, uh, just different topics, right? Different, um, different areas in the topic, but just similar form in the article. So they would be easily, easily linked to each other. But what happened as many things do is, um, squirrel, you know, I get distracted, I see something. And what happened was I paid a lot attention, attention to the articles that were rising to the top that were getting the most traffic, and then just decided to go all in on those types of articles or those types of topics, or that seemed to be earning the most.
So that's the first place I got distracted. And so I find myself writing articles that didn't necessarily fit into those initial architecture because the initial architecture was home. With those three sort of silos linked to from the homepage. And then everything would link back to the silo and the silo would link back to the homepage.
So it would be very linear. Um, but as the homepage was there and then the silos were there and then beneath that, it became, um, much more, um, chaotic, maybe that's, that's not the right word, but you know, there would be articles that would link to each other, but wouldn't necessarily make sense to link them back to the main topic silo, because they weren't necessarily about those topics.
Even though they were articles that were related to one of the articles that would be related to that. And then these other ones that could be cross-linked, but not linked up. And so eventually as things progressed, um, I tended to just, uh, look at where was the money and where was the traffic and follow.
And hope for the best. And so the goal obviously is to have everything be linked to something else, and then to have main pages that can link people to those articles so that nothing isn't orphan so that everything can be found so that Google is crawling everything. In the end, uh, best-laid plans, uh, went awry.
So it, uh, I would not be the guru on site architecture and organization because I followed, uh, where it was like where the, the, the yellow brick road, where did it go? And it, it went, it started out nice and clean and neat. And then it took a Lyft.
Jared: I think you're touching on something. I mean, I don't, I don't know.
I haven't started enough size to even become able to come close to it, but I feel like that story is far more common than the alternative, which is, um, the site following a linear pattern that is in line with what you envisioned it from the beginning.
Emilia: I mean, that's why I keep wanting to start sites. I keep thinking next time, next time, it's like a new relationship.
Next time I'm going to do the laundry right. Next time I will. Um, you know, it's, I actually have plans for the end of this year because if I finished my content for the year, I was going to plan December to do some cleanup. So to go back and look at, you know, the first hundred articles and to look at how those can, like what sort of architecture could be better to see if I can get more, um, more traction and more traffic out of the content that I have created.
Um, rather than just leaving some of that to say, oh, well it didn't do anything. It doesn't get any traffic and it never will. And like, whatever. The see what else I can do to help support the site and to see, you know, again, as part of my case study, to see if doing any of that will actually be worthwhile because in the end it might just be that it is what it is and it did what it did.
And next time I'll I'll do better, but it might not make a difference.
Jared: Well, and again, you talk about how the plan was to stick with those three silos, but in many ways, following a plan of doubling down to the content that's doing well, falls in line with what we talked about earlier, where you said, Hey, I'm not going to start reinvesting my own money or the site's money until I see what's working on the site.
And, you know, I, I think that you could make an argument that the same plan is being carried out with the way that you're doing the content. And would you say it's working out well, you know, like you're, you're looking at the results, like following the topics that are doing well with traffic and money and writing more of them, is that, is that working out well so far?
Yes, there you go. Okay.
Emilia: Yes. I mean, I, I definitely am not as organized as I would like to be, and I definitely did keyword research as I went and discovered other topics. I mean, that happens too, right? So you say, okay, I'm going to do the first a hundred articles on this, and then you continue to do keyword research.
And it's not like, I mean, I guess some people can do this, but I don't, you could find new areas that maybe you didn't realize you could go into, or maybe you didn't realize that this type of topic is really valuable. Like I have found, uh, in this site that, that, uh, this particular topic, plus a location seems to end up with a higher EPN V or RPM for ads.
Then it just, if you're talking about the item or the thing, or the action without the location, and that was something that I totally changed the course of the content that I was creating for a while, because I was trying to find ways to explore this topic in places. And that was not something that I foresaw.
And when I created
Jared: the site. Right, right. So you touched on EPM V or RPM or whatever the acronym of choice is. And, um, and you've also touched on how. This is a content focused site. Like I don't know what the ratio of content versus kind of more buying type. It is
Emilia: 99, 90 9%. And for content,
Jared: for lack of a better way to put
Emilia: it made it made it made what 20 or 30.
Through Amazon in
Jared: October. Okay. So yeah, very much monetize by ads by ad revenue. How are the RPMs or EPM visa on this, on this site? And are they, uh, w what you had in mind for it?
Emilia: Well, at the time I was going, when I started the side, I was going to be excited if it was at least 10, because I decided that I had worked on previous, uh, that I had poured a lot of time and intention into, uh, just the way that the articles played out, that the RPM just turned out to be really low, like extraordinarily low, like, like laughably low.
And, uh, so I was like, all right, well, if I can just, if this next side is at least $10 per thousand visitors, then I say, okay, then just building to a hundred thousand page views and focusing on low competition keywords. Even if they're low value keywords, it shouldn't be that hard because nobody else is going to be targeted targeting them.
And then, uh, in the spring, the RPM was closer to $20. And I was super jazzed about it. And then since then, as other articles have aged and also as I see the time of year and how that plays out for the site, the RPM has bounced up and down. But right now the average is around 15 and it's on.
Jared: Okay. So has it dropped a bit since spring or is it, is it more just kind of, oh yeah, it has.
You said $20. And so it's come down about 15 and
Emilia: I know why it is, there was one article on the site that just blew up in the spring because it was something that happened in the spring. And it was something that advertisers, uh, the, that particular article got a ton of traffic. And the RPM for that article specifically was, uh, over $30.
So it just took the, the average for the whole site, just where it went. And then when the spring passed and people were no longer looking for that thing, then the RPM contracted. And then in the summer, as people were looking for this thing to do in the place, then again, the RPM was higher. But as the year that as the summer has passed and people are no longer searching for how to do this thing or where to do this thing or why to do this thing in a place.
Then also the, the RPMs have changed. And so now we're going into Q4 and people are like, oh, my hands are awesome. And I'm like, kinda mediocre. Like I'm, I'm still not seeing that super mega awesome jump that you guys are, but you guys are going to be crying tears to your beers in March, and I'm going to be looking just fine.
Jared: February and March is not a good RPM season for the niche I'm in.
Emilia: So yeah. So, you know, it's like it all balances out and hopefully I'll see some benefit from it, but I'm not going to look in November. So.
Jared: It could come back to that for someone who doesn't like to put names on any of the care case studies or these different things, you should have a lot of really good names for all the things you've been working on so far.
Emilia: I can, I can not claim ownership or have any of those ideas.
Jared: Fair enough. You can only, you can only borrow in years,
Emilia: but I mean, like I didn't see no look November. I mean, no shave November, you know, it's so it's like right there. I just had to change from shave to look well.
Jared: Okay. Now we're starting to see it.
Maybe you haven't seen, you know, I've got a little bit a part of it, you know, it's partly your idea.
Emilia: I executed it at least. So. To show for it. So
Jared: going back to the RPMs, I mean, it's interesting to hear you talk about the RPMs of an individual article and it's, I feel like it's not something that gets talked a lot about, maybe, you know, we talk about the overall RPM of a site, right?
Like, Hey, this site, this niche is a, roughly a $20 RPM, you know, kind of, um, kind of site, but I mean, you touched on it. Shawna touched on it in her interview a couple weeks ago. W we we've already talked about once she talked about going in and actually looking at. The individual RPMs per page, and then identifying, you're probably going to have some that perform really, really well.
And then writing more content along those lines, because you can really increase the overall art page of your site. By doing that here, you are talking about how you know exactly why the RPM dropped and it's somewhat seasonal related. Um, any of the things you're doing to, uh, increase the RPMs on this site specifically, are you gonna write more content about that or try to find some stuff that, that people want and value in the winter?
I mean, I'm just curious to hear how you approach that because you're obviously paying attention to those details.
Emilia: Yes. Yes, I think you've basically explained all of it. You pretty much just, it was a lawyer leading question. You pretty loaded the question with the answer. So all of his it's pretty easy to
Jared: answer didn't I very fair enough.
That's good. Yeah. Well, like I said, it's, um, it's definitely a topic that I would like to explore more on my own website. I've never gone. I can't think of a time I've ever gone in and actually drilled down on the RPM by URL, you know, and I wonder what kind of trends I would, I would find. And
Emilia: to this day you haven't.
So are you in an ad network where, to this day you have not with your ad network? Cause I know that not every ad network like ad since obviously it doesn't offer you that option, but if you're with these, oh, are you, does your site with these OIC then? Does media vine have that option now?
Jared: Yeah, after the interview was on, I went and looked at it and downloaded it and I haven't looked at.
Emilia: Are you kidding me? So you have this information and you didn't even go and look, you just like continuing to post articles that might have an RPM of like a dollar per thousand visitors out of your mind.
Jared: Yeah, no, I'm not. I need some accountability in my life.
Emilia: Like I, you know, I, and I've gone back and forth on this and I've talked about this in my live streams a bit is, you know, that some clusters will get a lot of traffic, but they're low value. And then, you know, some clusters are higher value, but there's less traffic there and you have a decision to make, but at least you have the information to make the decision.
And right now you're kind of just plugging around in the dark. And that happened to me on my 2019 site where I didn't know that those particular articles were not that valuable. And I continued to write those articles. And then what Google decided was that my site was about those types of. And pretty much, um, stopped sending traffic to the articles that weren't about that kind of topic.
There's like, oh, those are, you know, outlier articles and not going to be competitive on those because you know, this, this site, isn't an authority on those valuable topics. It's an authority on those really not valuable topics.
Jared: Were you almost swung because you weren't writing enough about the topic that happened to be making you the most?
Emilia: I, I went deep on a topic and it was foolish because that was not a valuable topic. And if I had known that the RPM for that topic was less than a dollar, even for tier one traffic, I certainly would not.
Jared: I will say that the, uh, I've been lulled a bit to sleep on this one because you overall RPM for the website or for the niche is very high compared to what I hear other people talking about.
But I mean, that, that only expounds on the fact that when I drill in, I'm sure there are some that are exponentially higher than others. And, um, and you know, it just, it needs to happen. It needs to happen. Now I've got it a second time here. So I'm really going to now go and, and do more with it. Definitely.
Emilia: There, there could be other reasons to choose the maybe less valuable topic because there's more traffic there, especially for folks that are in a new site and they want to progress through to get to whatever network is. Ad network is. Right. So you could say, oh, well maybe a, this is a tier one topic that, that the audience is a tier one traffic coming from the primary countries that spend money on ads.
Maybe it's not the most valuable, but you could say, okay, maybe it's seven, $8 per thousand visitors on one ad network. But if I can get enough traffic to the site, then I can move over to someplace that has these other options. Maybe it has video ads. Maybe it has a higher, uh, uh, uh, just, uh, a better set up so you can earn more money.
And I, and, and what that is or how, or who or why it depends on the site. It depends on the topic. It depends on the niche, but.
Jared: I'd also be curious for those of us who have, um, maybe more of a balance between informational content and, you know, buying guys like, man, if I go ahead and get in there and discover that some of the topics where I make the most amount of money on the affiliate sales side of things is also the lower pain RPMs that would really put me into a bit of a conundrum, you know, because you want to keep building topics around informational topics to kind of support those buying guides.
Emilia: So that then the, if the, uh, the affiliate page is, has products on it, and you're trying to make money from it in the add value of the page is really low. Then I wouldn't worry so much about having ads. That I would just take those ads off of there and let it go. But to me, it seems like if you are, you have an affiliate page that is selling a really valuable product, that it seems like the advertisers would want to be there, that the ad value of that page could be something you could exploit is not the right word that you could optimize.
Yeah. And so you say, okay, I don't want to distract the user from, from my affiliate link, by clicking on one of the ads and say, well, you know, there's a lot of back and forth. And a lot of people argue about whether or not it's okay to have ads on the site, but there are people out there who their conclusion is that, uh, at this point, users have accepted the existence of ads.
It just become part of our ecosystem. And the fact that a page might not have ads on it might actually harm the likelihood that somebody will click on an affiliate link. And, and I don't want to say that I know one way or another, because I, I'm not an affiliate expert. I leave that to the experts, but, uh, any more, it just seems like everybody comes to.
Jared: I completely agree. I me, I know when I first started building sites, you know, the conversation was really around keeping the ads off of your affiliate page or your affiliate pages. And there's been a number of, of studies by people far smarter than me. And I think every, almost every one of them, I'm sure there's one that hasn't, but almost everyone I've seen has concluded.
Like, Hey, just like you said, you know, it doesn't affect the affiliate revenue at all and stuff. So, uh, well, okay, so you have these big lofty goals for the next, basically the next month or so, which carries us through the first year of this site. Um, dare I ask what's next for the site. Have you thought past the first year, what are your plans for this site?
And again, the reason why I think it's such an interesting question is not just to hear specifically what you have in mind, but I'm thinking of everybody listening. And I just, I want to kind of hear you talk through, uh, about the goals so people can, can, can kind of get a little bit of a window into your thinking about how you think about these things as they progress as they grow, as this site has changed and adapted right in front.
Emilia: You know, it's interesting because I started the site with the assumption that it would be something I would build quickly to sell quickly. And it wasn't something that I initially thought that, that it would be a a thousand article site. I, this was going to be a couple hundred article site that I would try to sell it probably after 24 months.
And so the fact that it's going to 500 in the first year, this is really I'm like gone off the rails already from my, like my comprehensive plan. And so that the 24 month plan or the 36 month plan is honestly still in, still in progress. I would like to see this site go to $5,000 a month and it would also just be a good, um, experience for me to stick with something long enough to get there.
I, I I'm fully confident that I could see. The site, you know, in the next year, probably I would I'd want to hold it until at least 24 months, I think, to maximize what I could get for it, but I could sell it, but it would be a great experience to learn what it is that I need to do with my own limitations, because my limitations are I'm easily distracted.
I am easily motivated by, uh, progress by, by things going in the right direction easily. De-motivated by any sign, that things aren't going well, uh, and how to manage this site plus other projects and keep them all moving forward and not letting other new projects distract me or derail me or the, the momentum on this project.
I would ultimately love to have a portfolio that. You know, at least a handful of sites that I could work on all of them and keep them all moving in the right direction. And obviously that's something I will only be able to do with outsourcing knowing me. Um, and that's not something I've been able to do yet.
So to have this site and then start another site in January and work on the one that I started in July and move all of these projects forward and have them all be successful would be, uh, the, the experience of being able to do that is something that I need. Because right now, at this point, I am able to be laser-focused on pretty much one thing and make that one thing work, but that is not going to get me to the dollar amount.
Mark's that that I would like to meet.
Jared: And so again, devil's advocate. Why wouldn't it, why wouldn't, uh, on the flip side, if you spend all of the next year putting all of your efforts towards this site and doubling down on it, why wouldn't it bring as much or greater return as maybe multiple sites? And again, I'm just asking you that
Emilia: is a great question.
And it's actually the question of the ages and something that we all have to debate. And it's something that we, that we all argue about because people go back and forth. Like I want to have a portfolio and I want to spread out my risk. And I, I want to make sure that if this site goes, you know, goes down because of Google, that I have something over here and having stuff in the pipeline so that I could have something I could sell every year.
Right. Because if I go all in on one site and then I sell it, I don't have anything coming behind it. Right. I I'm back to $0. Versus having a site that is making $5,000 a month and I can sell it and have that chunk of change to do whatever I want with and still have something to live off of because I don't have a full-time job behind it.
So there are a lot of things that go into it beyond just saying, okay, well, I would like to go in on all of this, on this one thing, sort of ignores the holistic picture of this being a business. And, and the, the thing that I use to feed my family. So if it was just this one site and it was just me and, uh, if this site went down, it would be just me.
I'm the only one who's got to worry about eating and paying for eating and the rest, but I use these sites to support myself. And so if one site goes down and that's the only site that I have. That, that could be a really scary thing. So I think I, I, I think a lot about the distributing, the risk and also, you know, in what is it in trading, they talk about taking profits, like taking profits off the table.
And so for me, I have it in my mind that I would, rather than going all in and making a $20,000 a month site and spending 5, 6, 7, 8 years on it. And I would, I would want to sell more often to take profits off the table just because I'm conservative. And part of that is the belief thing that we, we started the interview with, right.
Is that I just, I don't know that I have the belief yet that my effort and my time and my investment is safe in websites. If I were to just want to sit on it, like you would a piece of real estate for 10 years, I don't have that belief yet. And I, I think it will probably have to happen for me before I develop that belief in the foundation that holding for long-term is the way to go.
Especially as I watched so many of my friends and colleagues build upsides to solve. Uh, you know, Morton scorecard has got one of his big sites on empire flippers right now. And John Dykstra unloaded a bunch of his portfolio recently. And the guys over at income school unloaded a bunch of their portfolio.
So what you see, uh, is the people that we look up to and emulate, they're selling their stuff. They're not sitting on it longterm. What does that suggest to us? What does that tell us? So it's hard to say, oh, people are like, oh, like sit on a long-term and you should grow it to X, Y, and Z. I'm like, but everybody's selling.
Jared: I think you touched on virtually almost all the fears on both sides of the equities in there. And, uh, you know, I mean, you're right. It's, it's a debate that's going to live on in the ages. Uh, and I think that, I thought it was a really apropos question though, because you're, you're, you're clearly, you're very focused on not just the tangibles of the website, right?
Like, you know, how many articles does it have? You know, what's the keyword research, all that, and I'm not saying you're not, but I'm saying you're also focused on the intangibles about how you build websites and about your focus, your accountability, how, how, how you spend your time, you know, very honest about the way you do it.
And so I was just really curious to get your take on it. And I, you know, I think you're right. I think the tendency may be out of a lot of site builders and maybe newer site builders, but certainly in general is to move on to that next thing, you know? And so that doesn't make it a wrong decision because you're right with all that happens.
It's good. Yeah. Multiple irons in the fire
Emilia: and, and my, my own weakness is I love starting. It's my, we talked about my, my weaknesses or the things I have to work around. There's a special place in my heart for starting a new project and building it up in that first year. Like it be like that initial excitement where you got a site gets some legs, it's like a child.
Right. And your, your child just started walking. Right. You're like, I made that and like, look at it, go like, you know, there's 200 people on my site right now. You know, that's a plane load of people on my website right now, uh, that, that there's a special sort of excitement and, um, stimulation, I guess that comes with that experience.
And it's not the same when, when you get into the month, uh, 12 through 48. That is just doing the boring thing. That's making the site work over and over and over again.
Jared: Yep. Yeah. There's something slightly uninspired about publishing the 600 article on. I
Emilia: mean, Hey, like, yay. But you know, it, it, it's great to, to get to those achievements $2,000 a month, 3000, 5,000, 10,000, whatever.
And, but it's never enough, right? You've never arrived. You haven't just landed in France. And there's the Eiffel tower. Like you are just continually on a plane flying somewhere.
Jared: You are just full of good analogies. Boy,
Emilia: I don't even know where they come from.
Jared: We got planes in Eiffel towers and babies and kids walking and.
Um, but I, I, uh, I, I, I really, I would have wrapped this up here. I'm going to say, I really appreciate you coming on. I love these kinds of interviews because, um, yes, we have a great case study. I'll use the word case study site for us to go through and talk about some of the, the nuances of how you're building a site.
And I think there, I think it's great to have that foundation because I mean, again, so many people would be so stoked to build a website that after, um, uh, in less than a year is where it's at now and you're doing a great job, but there's so many other intangibles that we got to talk through today that I think were really great.
And I'm really glad you came on and shared, obviously I think, you know, that you're very honest about it and an open book, but it's really refreshing to hear, you know, here here's someone that has such an honest take on some of the intangibles that I don't think it talked about a lot, like accountability and these kinds of.
Emilia: Yeah. Well, I, hopefully when I listened back to this interview, I'm not embarrassed to myself.
Jared: Is this one of these where you'll kind of learn what you said after the fact?
Emilia: I actually, I, I actually, I can't listen to them when I, when I go through them, I can listen to the ones where I interview other people, but I can't listen to my own.
So I'll just have to ask other people how I did. I embarrass myself.
Jared: Well, I can tell you when grace, thanks for joining us here on the podcast.
Emilia: Appreciate you for having me. I really enjoyed myself. .